81. Self-Acceptance Is the Antidote to Self-Abandonment
Have you ever tried to build a life while constantly criticizing yourself and wondering why nothing feels stable? Maybe you push yourself under the bus, act like your own worst critic, or apologize for your needs. When you reject yourself, every boundary crumbles and every goal feels impossible because you’re building on quicksand.
In this episode, we dive into why self-acceptance is the real antidote to self-abandonment. We talk about how patterns of people-pleasing, over-functioning, and constant apologizing were survival strategies that made sense at the time, and how they can now keep you stuck. You’ll hear why you can’t shame yourself into change, why you can’t hate your way into healing, and how accepting where you’ve been allows you to choose new ways of being that fit who you are today.
We walk through a five-step process to start practicing self-acceptance: notice your self-critical patterns, speak to yourself like a friend, identify small ways you’ve been abandoning yourself, try tiny experiments in honoring yourself, and manage others’ reactions without guilt. Following these steps helps you make decisions from a place of self-trust, deepen your relationships, and show up fully as yourself. Self-acceptance isn’t the end of growth—it’s the foundation that makes sustainable transformation possible.
Want more live access to us? Get on our email list where you can ask us questions, get coached, and be the first to know about trainings, events, and free coaching. Click here to sign up now!
And if you know you need help finding balance and becoming unapologetically Ambitious-Ish, click here to book a free 60-minute consult to see if we’re a good match. Either you take all the awareness and value you get from the call and you run with it, or you coach with us for six months. That's two coaches for six months, and it's all about you.
What You’ll Learn from this Episode:
Why people-pleasing and over-functioning were once brilliant survival strategies.
How chronic self-abandonment creates resentment that is turned inward or outward.
The difference between accepting yourself and trying to fix yourself while still choosing new behaviors.
How to practice self-acceptance in five actionable steps.
How self-acceptance improves decision-making and authentic relationships.
Why discomfort from others doesn’t mean your boundaries or self-acceptance are wrong.
How self-acceptance creates a foundation for sustainable transformation and growth.
Listen to the Full Episode:
Featured on the Show:
Click here to follow, rate, and review the show. And if you love the show, don’t forget to share with someone you think will benefit!
Want to start ramping up your self-awareness so you’re on to yourself before Burnout fully takes over? Click here to get your free Burnout Alarm Bell Study Guide!
Let us know what you think of the show so far and what you’d like to hear more of or less of over on Instagram!
Click here to access our free No BS Boundary Playbook.
Ready to make this fall different? We have limited spots open for coaching this fall, so schedule a consultation with us.
Full Episode Transcript:
Kelle: Okay, question for you. Have you been trying to build a life on a foundation of self-rejection and then wondering why nothing feels stable?
Nina: Yeah, and when we say self-rejection, we mean you throw yourself under the bus. You make yourself the villain of the story. Maybe you treat yourself like you're the enemy and act like your own worst critic. If this sounds like you, then it makes sense that every boundary you try to set, every goal you attempt to reach, every relationship you want to improve, it all crumbles because you're building on quicksand.
Kelle: Here's what nobody tells you. You can't hate your way into healing. You can't shame yourself into sustainable change.
Nina: The people-pleasing, the over-functioning, the constant apologizing for existing, none of that makes you weak or broken. It makes you human.
Kelle: Yeah, everything you've done to this point makes complete sense, and you don't have to keep showing up that way anymore.
Nina: Yeah, today we're talking about why self-acceptance isn't fluffy self-help. It's literally the antidote to self-abandonment.
Kelle: Because Rockstar, the life you want isn't waiting for you to become someone else. It's waiting for you to stop rejecting who you already are.
Nina: Oh, mic drop. This is going to be a fun one. Let's jump in. This is Ambitious-ish.
Burnout? Check. Daily overwhelm? Check. Resentment rash, stress, and a complete lack of well-being? Check, check, check! You’re not alone. We’re your hosts, Kelle & Nina, and we are here to help you feel calm, balanced, and empowered so you can redefine success, make choices that feel authentic, and ACTUALLY enjoy the life you work so hard to create. You ready? Let’s go.
Kelle: Hey, I'm Kelle.
Nina: And I'm Nina. And today, we have a little announcement to share with you all, right, Kelle?
Kelle: Yeah. We're going to hit pause on creating new episodes of Ambitious-ish for a little while and focus on coaching our amazing clients.
Nina: Yeah, it just feels like we're being invited to really dive back into coaching and double down on what we love to do most, right, Kelle? Which is coach amazing women like you, help you break free from patterns that are keeping you stuck, so you can actually enjoy the life you work so hard to create.
Kelle: Yeah, and I'm really excited to refocus for a bit and come back here to Ambitious-ish when it feels aligned to do that. So, Nina and I, this is one of the most favorite things that we do, recording this podcast. We just love it so much. But in the meantime, go back and revisit your favorite episodes. There are so many.
Nina: Yeah, great call. Absolutely. And also, we do have a few spots open this fall for coaching, and it's a great time to come on in and work with us if you've been thinking about it.
Kelle: Yeah, just visit KelleAndNina.com and schedule a consultation with us to talk it through.
Nina: All right, cool. Well, that's what we wanted to share with you all today. Let's jump in. Today, we're talking about something that might just change everything for you. We're diving into self-acceptance, but not the fluffy “just love yourself” version that you've heard a thousand times before, right, Kelle?
Kelle: So true. We're talking about the kind of self-acceptance that actually interrupts the patterns keeping you stuck. The kind that becomes the foundation for everything else you want to build. Because here's what we've learned. Self-acceptance isn't just about feeling good about yourself. It's literally the antidote to self-abandonment.
Nina: And that self-abandonment, that's the real epidemic nobody's talking about. It's why you say yes when you actually mean no. Why you apologize for taking up space, why you twist yourself into a human pretzel, trying to fit into spaces that were never meant for you.
Kelle: So if you've been wondering why all of the boundary-setting techniques and self-care routines aren't creating lasting change, this episode is for you.
Nina: And maybe it's for someone you know too, so feel free to forward it along, right? If this sounds like someone you know. But you can't build sustainable boundaries on a foundation of self-rejection, and that's exactly what most of us have been trying to do.
Kelle: All right, let's start by getting really honest about what self-abandonment looks like in everyday life.
Nina: Because it's not always dramatic, right? Most of the time, it's subtle. It's the daily micro-betrayals that add up over time.
Kelle: Yeah, it's staying quiet in meetings when you have something valuable to contribute because you don't want to seem like too much.
Nina: Yeah, it's saying yes to social plans when you're exhausted because you don't want people to think you're anti-social.
Kelle: It's apologizing for your needs, your preferences, your very existence in spaces where you have every right to be.
Nina: It's editing yourself in real time, changing your tone, dimming your energy, hiding your opinions so other people feel comfortable.
Kelle: And here's the thing, right, Nina, that makes this so insidious. We learned to abandon ourselves as a survival strategy.
Nina: Exactly. So listen, for most of us, self-abandonment started as a way to stay safe, to belong, to avoid conflict or rejection years and years and years and years ago.
Kelle: When you're a kid and your emotional needs are too much for the adults around you, you learn to make yourself smaller.
Nina: And when you're in environments where being too loud or too much gets you labeled as difficult, you learn to dim your light, right?
Kelle: When love feels conditional on how little space you take up, you learn that your authentic self is somehow wrong or dangerous.
Nina: So you develop these incredibly sophisticated systems for monitoring everyone else's comfort level and adjusting yourself accordingly. Can anyone relate here? I hope so.
Kelle: So true, and those systems worked. They kept you safe. They helped you belong. They got you love and approval.
Nina: But now, those same systems are keeping you trapped in a life that doesn't actually fit who you've become.
Kelle: So true. Okay, let's talk about what happens when self-abandonment becomes your default operating system, when it becomes just like who you are.
Nina: First, you lose touch with what you actually want, right? This happens all the time with our clients. They come to coaching, and they haven't sat down and dreamed, daydreamed, or thought about their wants and desires in so long. It's such a treat and an honor to work with them through that. Because you've spent so much energy managing everyone else's experience that you don't even know what your experience is anymore, right?
Kelle: Yeah. We see it so often. You become a stranger to yourself. People ask you what you want for dinner, and you genuinely don't know because you've been so focused on what everyone else wants.
Nina: Like that decision-making becomes paralyzed because you've outsourced your judgment for so long that you don't trust your own instincts anymore.
Kelle: Your relationships become exhausting because you're constantly performing a version of yourself rather than just being yourself.
Nina: And your nervous system gets stuck in hypervigilance, raising my hand here, constantly scanning for signs that you need to adjust, accommodate, or just apologize for being you.
Kelle: Plus, and listen, this is crucial, chronic self-abandonment makes you resentful because some parts of you know that this just isn't sustainable.
Nina: Right. There's this part of you that's keeping score. Even if you don't want to admit it, I gave up what I wanted again. I made myself smaller again. I prioritized their comfort over my own again. Like we talked about in episode 80, resentment is a clue. It's a sign that you're carrying something you're not meant to carry.
Kelle: And just to add on here, that resentment either gets turned outward, where you become bitter toward the people you've been accommodating, or it gets turned inward, where you become angry at yourself for being so weak.
Nina: Yeah, neither option feels good. No, no. And neither option actually addresses the root issue.
Kelle: Yeah, which is, again, you are trying to earn the love that you want and belong by rejecting parts of yourself, by not listening to those parts.
Nina: So, let's talk about what real self-acceptance actually looks like. And I want to be clear, we're not talking about toxic positivity or pretending everything about yourself is perfect. Real self-acceptance starts with this revolutionary idea: Everything you've done to this point makes complete sense. Oh my God, Kelle, we tell clients this all the time, don't we?
Kelle: It's so true. Every pattern that you've developed, every way you've learned to survive, every strategy you use to get love and belonging, it all made perfect sense given the information you had at the time, at that time in your life that you developed that.
Nina: So that people-pleasing, that made sense. The over-functioning, that also made sense. The constant apologizing made complete sense.
Kelle: Yeah, you weren't broken or weak or too sensitive. You were a human being doing the best to navigate impossible situations with limited resources. And Nina, this just makes me think of a client that I was talking to yesterday. And she has two kids. One is her like really easy kid, right? That just kind of does everything that she says. And the other one is the total, I don't want to say rebel, but kind of like just gives you the double middle fingers when you try to tell her what to do. Right? And she's just like, I just wish they were both easy. And I questioned that because I was like, do you really want them to be people-pleasers and just do everything you say, right?
Nina: Do you really? And it's so hard in the moment as a parent, you just want ease and calm, especially our clients. You know, they have very full plates, buffet-sized plates, and parenting often is where like their stuff comes out sideways and where they feel a lot of shame. And so we hear you, client, you know? We totally hear you and...
Kelle: Yeah, and I was, I was kind of like, okay, where do you think that she learned that? And the client was like, uh...
Nina: And Kelle and I, Kelle told me this afterwards, and I was just like, sounds a lot like the client herself. Yes, yes. She's a total badass, and I could totally see her as a young girl, like double middle fingering. Totally. In a badass way.
Kelle: Yes. It's so funny.
Nina: Yes. It's just funny. Yeah. But here's what's beautiful about this, right? Once you can accept why you developed these patterns, you can also accept that you don't have to keep them.
Kelle: Because they were survival strategies, not personality traits. They were adaptations, not your true nature, like who you are.
Nina: Yeah, and the part of you that developed these strategies, that part is incredibly wise and deserves your gratitude, not your judgment.
Kelle: All right, let's get specific about how to start this process of self-acceptance.
Nina: Yeah, okay. The first step here is getting curious about your patterns instead of judgmental. And a killer coach helps you do this, right, Kelle? This is, we're like pulling the curtain back here, but getting curious about the way you do things. When you notice yourself people-pleasing or over-functioning, just check in. What was this strategy trying to protect me from when I first learned it, right? When did this first show up for me? What was it trying to protect me from?
Kelle: Yes. What's that question that you always ask, Nina? Where do you think you learned this? Maybe people-pleasing protected you from conflict in a household where arguments felt dangerous.
Nina: Maybe that over-functioning protected you from feeling helpless in chaotic situations.
Kelle: Or maybe making yourself small protected you from being seen as a threat by people who felt intimidated by your natural confidence.
Nina: I've told this story before, but I was totally made fun of by one particular person growing up. Her name was Sarah. She basically told me I was a show-off on the athletic field, and I was shocked. I love sports. It never occurred to me that I was even good at them. I knew I was a faster runner, but she was like, "You are such a show-off." And I started really dimming my light after she told me that. I'll never forget it. And I just started running slower and just not being myself on the field. And it just didn't feel right or natural, but I understand now, right? That I was a threat to her in some way, right? On a very competitive, no pun intended, like playing field. It was just so interesting.
Kelle: It's so true because any of your friends or us, like that know you, are just like, oh my God, Nina is so humble. She's so quiet. She's like, if I had Nina's arms, I would be showing off those arms all the time. I'd be like, look at these guns. And she's just like, oh, no big deal. This is just what I grew up with. And I'm just like...
Nina: It's my inheritance, my arms.
Kelle: I'd bring those out. I'd bring those out all the time.
Nina: All right, everyone. I'm going to be, I'm going to be showing my arms more. But listen, once you can see the wisdom in these strategies, right, something shifts. So instead of being angry at yourself for having them, you can feel compassion for the part of you that needed them.
Kelle: It's so true. This is where the real healing happens. Not in forcing yourself to stop these patterns, but in understanding why they exist and appreciating what they've done for you.
Nina: This is so key. I'm so glad we're talking about this. I don't know why it's really singing to me today for whatever reason, but, you know, here's the truth. You can't shame yourself into sustainable change. That's not how it works.
Kelle: No. You can't reject parts of yourself and expect to feel whole. You can't like hate your way into healing.
Nina: No, that does not work. But you can accept where you've been and consciously choose where you want to go.
Kelle: One of the biggest barriers to self-acceptance, I think, is this idea that if we accept ourselves as we are, we won't change.
Nina: Oh, totally. It's like self-acceptance means settling or throwing in the towel or giving up on growth, right?
Kelle: Yeah, my least favorite word, content. Right? But that's not how it works at all. In fact, acceptance is what makes genuine change possible.
Nina: Yeah, when you're constantly fighting against parts of yourself, all your energy goes into that internal battle. There's nothing left for actual growth.
Kelle: But when you can accept that your patterns made sense and that you're ready to develop new ones, that's when transformation becomes possible. And I'm just going to say it, you take that energy that you were using to fight against yourself and bring it towards yourself, and that is like where the magic happens.
Nina: It's so true. It's so true. It's like the difference between trying to renovate a house while you're actually demolishing it versus working with the existing structure to create something new, right?
Kelle: That self-acceptance gives you a stable foundation to build from.
Nina: And here's what we want you to understand. You don't have to show up the same way anymore.
Kelle: It's so true. The strategies that got you this far don't have to be the strategies that take you forward. In fact, I'm just going to say it, they can't.
Nina: Yeah. You can honor what those patterns did for you and choose new ways of being that serve who you're becoming. I have a funny little analogy here, and I've mentioned this in past episodes. The metaphor here is like, okay, this was during COVID or after quarantine. It was 2021. There was a snowstorm in Texas, and that doesn't happen often in Texas, right? And so everyone was scrambling to get their space heater out, right? And actually, some people perished because they sat in their car and ran their car overnight. Do you remember? This was on national news. It was a big, big snow slash ice storm.
Anyway, when you're in a snowstorm in Texas, you bring out your space heater. And when the storm passes, you put the space heater away. You have to adapt because it's 99 degrees out again. And if you keep the space heater out, it's not going to serve you. But it served you under the ice storm circumstances, right? And what we're talking about here is the need to adapt.
What we do unwittingly is we keep the space heater out, right? The people-pleasing, the over-functioning. Is this landing? I'm not telling the story very well, but basically, we need to adapt, and we don't. And so this is that invitation to put the space heater gratefully in the closet, right? And adapt back to the 98 degree Texas weather in healthy ways, with healthy coping skills, right? Yeah.
Kelle: Yes, yes. So true. And you can appreciate your people-pleasing tendencies for keeping you safe and decide that you're ready to practice stating your preferences directly.
Nina: Yeah, you can acknowledge your over-functioning for helping you feel valuable and choose to let other people carry their own responsibilities.
Kelle: The key to all this is making these changes from a place of choice rather than self-rejection.
Nina: Yeah, so what does this look like practically? How do you actually practice self-acceptance in your daily life, right?
Kelle: Okay, first, notice your internal dialogue. When you catch yourself people-pleasing or over-functioning, what's the story you tell yourself about it?
Nina: Yeah, are you saying things like, "I'm so weak, I'm such a mess," or, "I should know better by now," or, "Why can't I just set boundaries?" right?
Kelle: Or you can shift to something like, "This pattern served me once, and it makes sense that it's still here. I'm learning new ways to feel safe and connected."
Nina: Yeah, and second here, get curious about your triggers. What situations make you most likely to abandon yourself? And Kelle and I define triggers as it's your wounding, one of your wounds that's being reopened, right? So get curious about what that wound is. What situations make you most likely to abandon yourself?
Kelle: Yeah, and I just want to say, a lot of times people will say that they triggered me, right? Like, or that situation triggered me, but really, I'm not going to get too far in the weeds, but it's your thoughts about the situation, or the person, or what they said. Okay.
Nina: And it's probably a reflection of something that's hurt you in the past, right? A wound. Yeah, some sort of wounding.
Kelle: Yes, and that's not a bad thing. It's actually a really good thing. But okay, we're going to get, I'm coming back. I'm coming back.
Nina: Okay, so understanding your patterns isn't about judging them. It's about developing compassion for the circumstances that activate your survival strategies, right? That wake you up, wake those parts of you up.
Kelle: And third, practice tiny experiments in self-honoring. Start small, right? Share one authentic preference. Say no to one thing you don't want to do.
Nina: Yeah, but here's the key, right? Do it from a place of self-acceptance, not like self-improvement.
Kelle: Yeah, the energy is completely different. When you're trying to fix yourself, there's this underlying message that you're currently broken.
Nina: But when you're accepting yourself while also choosing new behaviors, there's this sense of, I'm okay as I am, and I'm ready to expand, right?
Kelle: It's so true. So true. Now, let's address that elephant in the room. What happens when you start accepting yourself, but other people aren't ready for that version of you?
Nina: Ooh, this happens. This is real. When you stop abandoning yourself to make others comfortable, some people are going to have feelings about it, thoughts and feelings about it.
Kelle: Yeah. The people who benefited from you people-pleasing might not love your new boundaries.
Nina: Yeah, those systems that relied on your over-functioning might resist your new approach to responsibility.
Kelle: And this is where your nervous system is going to want to revert back to old patterns to help keep the peace.
Nina: Yeah, your body is going to interpret their discomfort as danger and want you to go back to managing their emotions.
Kelle: But here's what we need you to remember. Other people's discomfort with your growth is not your problem. It's not your emergency to worry about.
Nina: Yeah, their reaction to your self-acceptance says nothing about whether your self-acceptance is right or wrong.
Kelle: It just means that they've gotten comfortable with a version of you that required self-abandonment.
Nina: And that's not your problem to solve by going back to rejecting yourself, right? In fact, your self-acceptance gives other people permission to accept themselves too.
Kelle: Yeah, when you stop performing and start being authentic, you create space for real connection. And the relationships that can handle your authenticity will get deeper and more meaningful.
Nina: And the ones that can't, those were built on a foundation that wasn't sustainable anyway. Kelle, what's the quote? It's like...
Kelle: Oh my God, Nina, I was just going to bring that up.
Nina: Really? Oh my God. We share a brain. It's not that you're leaving them behind, it's that they're not coming with you. It's something like that, right?
Kelle: Exactly. Nina: On your journey.
Kelle: Yeah. Thank you.
Nina: Yeah.
Kelle: Alright, let's talk about what becomes possible when self-acceptance becomes your foundation instead of self-abandonment.
Nina: Okay, here we go. Your decision-making gets so much clearer. When you're not constantly second-guessing yourself, you can actually hear your own intuition.
Kelle: It's so true. And I'm just going to say, I had a situation, I had a family situation. It's a family emergency, and people wanted me to hop on a flight that same day and move from a place of fear-based. And I was just like, I felt it, and I was just like, there's no way. There's no way I'm jumping on a plane today. And I got so much flack from people that I really love about it. And I was just like, I'm not doing it. And people did not love that. And I felt like totally solid in my decision about it. And it turned out to be the right decision for me. And it's just like that listening to you, even when other people are not going to like it at all.
Nina: Yeah, totally could have shape-shifted and rallied and said yes when you meant no. Yeah, but you didn't.
Kelle: And then I would have been resentful about it.
Nina: Resentment rash.
Kelle: So listening to yourself is key, and those relationships become, your relationships, I should say, become even more authentic because you're not constantly managing other people's perception of you.
Nina: Imagine this, your energy level just is so different. It improves because you're not burning fuel on internal battles between who you are and who you think you should be, right?
Kelle: Yeah. Going back to that who you think you should be. If I was a “good daughter,” I would have hopped on a plane, right? As quote-unquote “good daughter” back in the day. And it's just like, no, I'm an amazing daughter and I'm checking in with, you know, mine. And I'll see you Friday.
Nina: And I'll see you Friday.
Kelle: Yes. Yes. I'm still going, and I'm just going at the end of the week. And listen, when you do this, your creativity expands because there's space for all parts of you to exist and contribute.
Nina: Yeah, and your nervous system finally gets to relax because you're not constantly vigilant about whether you're too much or good or bad or not enough, right? But maybe most importantly, you become a safe space for yourself.
Nina: Oh, you come home to yourself, right? Instead of being your own worst critic, you become your own ally, like your own teammate, your most trusted friend.
Kelle: And when you create a safe space for yourself, you can take risks, try new things, and handle challenges from a completely different foundation.
Nina: Because you know that no matter what happens, you're not going to abandon yourself in the process.
Kelle: It's so true. So true. All right, let's get practical. If you're ready to start building a foundation of self-acceptance, here's where to begin.
Nina: Yeah, here's step one. Notice when you're being self-critical and just ask, what was this pattern trying to protect me from, right? Get curious, not judgmental.
Kelle: All right, and step two, practice talking to yourself the way you talk to a good friend. You wouldn't tell your friend they're weak for having survival strategies, so don't tell yourself that either.
Nina: Yeah. Step three here, identify one small way you've been abandoning yourself lately. Maybe it's agreeing to plans you don't want, right? Like Kelle. Or staying quiet when you have something to say.
Kelle: And step four, choose one tiny experiment in honor of yourself this week. Express one preference, set one small boundary, or share one authentic thought.
Nina: Yeah, share your opinion. And step five here, when other people react to your authenticity, remind yourself their discomfort is not evidence that you're doing anything wrong.
Kelle: Yeah, remember, this isn't about perfection. It's about progress. It's about slowly rebuilding trust with yourself. And every time you choose self-acceptance over self-abandonment, you're creating new neural pathways. You're teaching your nervous system that it's safe to be you.
Nina: Yeah, totally. Okay, so before we wrap up, we want to address something directly. Your worth was never conditional on how much you could shrink yourself for others. And the love and belonging you've been seeking through self-abandonment, you can't actually get it that way.
Kelle: Yeah, because the connection that requires you to reject parts of yourself isn't real connection. It's not real connection. I'm just going to underline that. It's performance. It's pretending. And love that depends on you being someone you're not isn't real love. It's approval for the character that you've been playing.
Nina: Real love and belonging can only exist when you're actually present as yourself. And that requires self-acceptance. It requires you to believe that who you are, all of who you are, is worthy of love and belonging. Not because you're perfect, but because you're human. Not because you never make mistakes, but because you're worthy of compassion.
Kelle: It's so true. Your sensitivity isn't too much. Your needs aren't too demanding. Your voice, listen, your voice is not too loud, right? You've just been in spaces that were too small for who you actually are.
Nina: And the beautiful thing about self-acceptance is that it creates the foundation for you to find and create spaces that are big enough for all of you. So here's the permission slip, Rockstars. Everything you've done to this point makes complete sense.
Kelle: Every way you've learned to survive, every strategy you've used to get love, every pattern you've developed, it all makes sense. That's one thing that we always do in our coaching practice. We want to make sure that our clients understand that the way they do things, what they developed made sense at the time, and they don't necessarily have to keep showing up that way anymore.
Nina: You can honor where you've been and consciously choose where you're going. You can appreciate your survival strategies and develop new ways of being that serve who you're becoming.
Kelle: Because self-acceptance isn't the end of your growth. It's the beginning of sustainable transformation. It's the foundation that makes everything else possible.
Nina: Your journey of self-acceptance is going to be messy and imperfect, and that's exactly as it should be. There'll be days when you slip back into old patterns, and that's not failure, that's being human. The goal isn't to never abandon yourself again. The goal is to notice when it happens and gently guide yourself back to acceptance.
Kelle: And remember, you're not trying to become someone new. You're trying to become more fully yourself. I'm going to actually scratch the trying and just say you are becoming more fully yourself.
Nina: Yeah, the person you are underneath all those survival strategies, that person is worth knowing. That person is worth accepting. That person is worth celebrating.
Kelle: All right, Rockstars, let's wrap this up for today. If this episode resonated with you, share it with someone who needs to hear it.
Nina: Yeah, and remember your worth was never conditional on your willingness to disappear, to play small. Your time is now.
Kelle: All right, thank you so much for being here. We will see you soon. We're not sure when, but we will see you next time, right?
Nina: Yeah. See you next time.
Hey Rockstars, ready to make this fall different? To stop cycling through the same old patterns of people pleasing, perfectionism, and overwhelm? It's time to break free. We have limited spots open for coaching this fall. So schedule a consultation with us at kelleandnina.com and let's get to work on actually implementing the tools and systems, and concepts that you hear us talk about here on Ambitious-ish, so you can actually enjoy the life you work so hard to create. Don't wait. This is your reset opportunity. Visit kelleandnina.com.
Kelle: Thank you so much for listening to today’s episode of Ambitious-Ish.
Nina: If you’re ready to align your ambitions with your heart and feel more calm, balanced, and connected, visit KelleAndNina.com for more information about how to work with us and make sure you get on our list.
Kelle: See you in the next episode!
Nina: Yeah, and when we say self-rejection, we mean you throw yourself under the bus. You make yourself the villain of the story. Maybe you treat yourself like you're the enemy and act like your own worst critic. If this sounds like you, then it makes sense that every boundary you try to set, every goal you attempt to reach, every relationship you want to improve, it all crumbles because you're building on quicksand.
Kelle: Here's what nobody tells you. You can't hate your way into healing. You can't shame yourself into sustainable change.
Nina: The people-pleasing, the over-functioning, the constant apologizing for existing, none of that makes you weak or broken. It makes you human.
Kelle: Yeah, everything you've done to this point makes complete sense, and you don't have to keep showing up that way anymore.
Nina: Yeah, today we're talking about why self-acceptance isn't fluffy self-help. It's literally the antidote to self-abandonment.
Kelle: Because Rockstar, the life you want isn't waiting for you to become someone else. It's waiting for you to stop rejecting who you already are.
Nina: Oh, mic drop. This is going to be a fun one. Let's jump in. This is Ambitious-ish.
Burnout? Check. Daily overwhelm? Check. Resentment rash, stress, and a complete lack of well-being? Check, check, check! You’re not alone. We’re your hosts, Kelle & Nina, and we are here to help you feel calm, balanced, and empowered so you can redefine success, make choices that feel authentic, and ACTUALLY enjoy the life you work so hard to create. You ready? Let’s go.
Kelle: Hey, I'm Kelle.
Nina: And I'm Nina. And today, we have a little announcement to share with you all, right, Kelle?
Kelle: Yeah. We're going to hit pause on creating new episodes of Ambitious-ish for a little while and focus on coaching our amazing clients.
Nina: Yeah, it just feels like we're being invited to really dive back into coaching and double down on what we love to do most, right, Kelle? Which is coach amazing women like you, help you break free from patterns that are keeping you stuck, so you can actually enjoy the life you work so hard to create.
Kelle: Yeah, and I'm really excited to refocus for a bit and come back here to Ambitious-ish when it feels aligned to do that. So, Nina and I, this is one of the most favorite things that we do, recording this podcast. We just love it so much. But in the meantime, go back and revisit your favorite episodes. There are so many.
Nina: Yeah, great call. Absolutely. And also, we do have a few spots open this fall for coaching, and it's a great time to come on in and work with us if you've been thinking about it.
Kelle: Yeah, just visit KelleAndNina.com and schedule a consultation with us to talk it through.
Nina: All right, cool. Well, that's what we wanted to share with you all today. Let's jump in. Today, we're talking about something that might just change everything for you. We're diving into self-acceptance, but not the fluffy “just love yourself” version that you've heard a thousand times before, right, Kelle?
Kelle: So true. We're talking about the kind of self-acceptance that actually interrupts the patterns keeping you stuck. The kind that becomes the foundation for everything else you want to build. Because here's what we've learned. Self-acceptance isn't just about feeling good about yourself. It's literally the antidote to self-abandonment.
Nina: And that self-abandonment, that's the real epidemic nobody's talking about. It's why you say yes when you actually mean no. Why you apologize for taking up space, why you twist yourself into a human pretzel, trying to fit into spaces that were never meant for you.
Kelle: So if you've been wondering why all of the boundary-setting techniques and self-care routines aren't creating lasting change, this episode is for you.
Nina: And maybe it's for someone you know too, so feel free to forward it along, right? If this sounds like someone you know. But you can't build sustainable boundaries on a foundation of self-rejection, and that's exactly what most of us have been trying to do.
Kelle: All right, let's start by getting really honest about what self-abandonment looks like in everyday life.
Nina: Because it's not always dramatic, right? Most of the time, it's subtle. It's the daily micro-betrayals that add up over time.
Kelle: Yeah, it's staying quiet in meetings when you have something valuable to contribute because you don't want to seem like too much.
Nina: Yeah, it's saying yes to social plans when you're exhausted because you don't want people to think you're anti-social.
Kelle: It's apologizing for your needs, your preferences, your very existence in spaces where you have every right to be.
Nina: It's editing yourself in real time, changing your tone, dimming your energy, hiding your opinions so other people feel comfortable.
Kelle: And here's the thing, right, Nina, that makes this so insidious. We learned to abandon ourselves as a survival strategy.
Nina: Exactly. So listen, for most of us, self-abandonment started as a way to stay safe, to belong, to avoid conflict or rejection years and years and years and years ago.
Kelle: When you're a kid and your emotional needs are too much for the adults around you, you learn to make yourself smaller.
Nina: And when you're in environments where being too loud or too much gets you labeled as difficult, you learn to dim your light, right?
Kelle: When love feels conditional on how little space you take up, you learn that your authentic self is somehow wrong or dangerous.
Nina: So you develop these incredibly sophisticated systems for monitoring everyone else's comfort level and adjusting yourself accordingly. Can anyone relate here? I hope so.
Kelle: So true, and those systems worked. They kept you safe. They helped you belong. They got you love and approval.
Nina: But now, those same systems are keeping you trapped in a life that doesn't actually fit who you've become.
Kelle: So true. Okay, let's talk about what happens when self-abandonment becomes your default operating system, when it becomes just like who you are.
Nina: First, you lose touch with what you actually want, right? This happens all the time with our clients. They come to coaching, and they haven't sat down and dreamed, daydreamed, or thought about their wants and desires in so long. It's such a treat and an honor to work with them through that. Because you've spent so much energy managing everyone else's experience that you don't even know what your experience is anymore, right?
Kelle: Yeah. We see it so often. You become a stranger to yourself. People ask you what you want for dinner, and you genuinely don't know because you've been so focused on what everyone else wants.
Nina: Like that decision-making becomes paralyzed because you've outsourced your judgment for so long that you don't trust your own instincts anymore.
Kelle: Your relationships become exhausting because you're constantly performing a version of yourself rather than just being yourself.
Nina: And your nervous system gets stuck in hypervigilance, raising my hand here, constantly scanning for signs that you need to adjust, accommodate, or just apologize for being you.
Kelle: Plus, and listen, this is crucial, chronic self-abandonment makes you resentful because some parts of you know that this just isn't sustainable.
Nina: Right. There's this part of you that's keeping score. Even if you don't want to admit it, I gave up what I wanted again. I made myself smaller again. I prioritized their comfort over my own again. Like we talked about in episode 80, resentment is a clue. It's a sign that you're carrying something you're not meant to carry.
Kelle: And just to add on here, that resentment either gets turned outward, where you become bitter toward the people you've been accommodating, or it gets turned inward, where you become angry at yourself for being so weak.
Nina: Yeah, neither option feels good. No, no. And neither option actually addresses the root issue.
Kelle: Yeah, which is, again, you are trying to earn the love that you want and belong by rejecting parts of yourself, by not listening to those parts.
Nina: So, let's talk about what real self-acceptance actually looks like. And I want to be clear, we're not talking about toxic positivity or pretending everything about yourself is perfect. Real self-acceptance starts with this revolutionary idea: Everything you've done to this point makes complete sense. Oh my God, Kelle, we tell clients this all the time, don't we?
Kelle: It's so true. Every pattern that you've developed, every way you've learned to survive, every strategy you use to get love and belonging, it all made perfect sense given the information you had at the time, at that time in your life that you developed that.
Nina: So that people-pleasing, that made sense. The over-functioning, that also made sense. The constant apologizing made complete sense.
Kelle: Yeah, you weren't broken or weak or too sensitive. You were a human being doing the best to navigate impossible situations with limited resources. And Nina, this just makes me think of a client that I was talking to yesterday. And she has two kids. One is her like really easy kid, right? That just kind of does everything that she says. And the other one is the total, I don't want to say rebel, but kind of like just gives you the double middle fingers when you try to tell her what to do. Right? And she's just like, I just wish they were both easy. And I questioned that because I was like, do you really want them to be people-pleasers and just do everything you say, right?
Nina: Do you really? And it's so hard in the moment as a parent, you just want ease and calm, especially our clients. You know, they have very full plates, buffet-sized plates, and parenting often is where like their stuff comes out sideways and where they feel a lot of shame. And so we hear you, client, you know? We totally hear you and...
Kelle: Yeah, and I was, I was kind of like, okay, where do you think that she learned that? And the client was like, uh...
Nina: And Kelle and I, Kelle told me this afterwards, and I was just like, sounds a lot like the client herself. Yes, yes. She's a total badass, and I could totally see her as a young girl, like double middle fingering. Totally. In a badass way.
Kelle: Yes. It's so funny.
Nina: Yes. It's just funny. Yeah. But here's what's beautiful about this, right? Once you can accept why you developed these patterns, you can also accept that you don't have to keep them.
Kelle: Because they were survival strategies, not personality traits. They were adaptations, not your true nature, like who you are.
Nina: Yeah, and the part of you that developed these strategies, that part is incredibly wise and deserves your gratitude, not your judgment.
Kelle: All right, let's get specific about how to start this process of self-acceptance.
Nina: Yeah, okay. The first step here is getting curious about your patterns instead of judgmental. And a killer coach helps you do this, right, Kelle? This is, we're like pulling the curtain back here, but getting curious about the way you do things. When you notice yourself people-pleasing or over-functioning, just check in. What was this strategy trying to protect me from when I first learned it, right? When did this first show up for me? What was it trying to protect me from?
Kelle: Yes. What's that question that you always ask, Nina? Where do you think you learned this? Maybe people-pleasing protected you from conflict in a household where arguments felt dangerous.
Nina: Maybe that over-functioning protected you from feeling helpless in chaotic situations.
Kelle: Or maybe making yourself small protected you from being seen as a threat by people who felt intimidated by your natural confidence.
Nina: I've told this story before, but I was totally made fun of by one particular person growing up. Her name was Sarah. She basically told me I was a show-off on the athletic field, and I was shocked. I love sports. It never occurred to me that I was even good at them. I knew I was a faster runner, but she was like, "You are such a show-off." And I started really dimming my light after she told me that. I'll never forget it. And I just started running slower and just not being myself on the field. And it just didn't feel right or natural, but I understand now, right? That I was a threat to her in some way, right? On a very competitive, no pun intended, like playing field. It was just so interesting.
Kelle: It's so true because any of your friends or us, like that know you, are just like, oh my God, Nina is so humble. She's so quiet. She's like, if I had Nina's arms, I would be showing off those arms all the time. I'd be like, look at these guns. And she's just like, oh, no big deal. This is just what I grew up with. And I'm just like...
Nina: It's my inheritance, my arms.
Kelle: I'd bring those out. I'd bring those out all the time.
Nina: All right, everyone. I'm going to be, I'm going to be showing my arms more. But listen, once you can see the wisdom in these strategies, right, something shifts. So instead of being angry at yourself for having them, you can feel compassion for the part of you that needed them.
Kelle: It's so true. This is where the real healing happens. Not in forcing yourself to stop these patterns, but in understanding why they exist and appreciating what they've done for you.
Nina: This is so key. I'm so glad we're talking about this. I don't know why it's really singing to me today for whatever reason, but, you know, here's the truth. You can't shame yourself into sustainable change. That's not how it works.
Kelle: No. You can't reject parts of yourself and expect to feel whole. You can't like hate your way into healing.
Nina: No, that does not work. But you can accept where you've been and consciously choose where you want to go.
Kelle: One of the biggest barriers to self-acceptance, I think, is this idea that if we accept ourselves as we are, we won't change.
Nina: Oh, totally. It's like self-acceptance means settling or throwing in the towel or giving up on growth, right?
Kelle: Yeah, my least favorite word, content. Right? But that's not how it works at all. In fact, acceptance is what makes genuine change possible.
Nina: Yeah, when you're constantly fighting against parts of yourself, all your energy goes into that internal battle. There's nothing left for actual growth.
Kelle: But when you can accept that your patterns made sense and that you're ready to develop new ones, that's when transformation becomes possible. And I'm just going to say it, you take that energy that you were using to fight against yourself and bring it towards yourself, and that is like where the magic happens.
Nina: It's so true. It's so true. It's like the difference between trying to renovate a house while you're actually demolishing it versus working with the existing structure to create something new, right?
Kelle: That self-acceptance gives you a stable foundation to build from.
Nina: And here's what we want you to understand. You don't have to show up the same way anymore.
Kelle: It's so true. The strategies that got you this far don't have to be the strategies that take you forward. In fact, I'm just going to say it, they can't.
Nina: Yeah. You can honor what those patterns did for you and choose new ways of being that serve who you're becoming. I have a funny little analogy here, and I've mentioned this in past episodes. The metaphor here is like, okay, this was during COVID or after quarantine. It was 2021. There was a snowstorm in Texas, and that doesn't happen often in Texas, right? And so everyone was scrambling to get their space heater out, right? And actually, some people perished because they sat in their car and ran their car overnight. Do you remember? This was on national news. It was a big, big snow slash ice storm.
Anyway, when you're in a snowstorm in Texas, you bring out your space heater. And when the storm passes, you put the space heater away. You have to adapt because it's 99 degrees out again. And if you keep the space heater out, it's not going to serve you. But it served you under the ice storm circumstances, right? And what we're talking about here is the need to adapt.
What we do unwittingly is we keep the space heater out, right? The people-pleasing, the over-functioning. Is this landing? I'm not telling the story very well, but basically, we need to adapt, and we don't. And so this is that invitation to put the space heater gratefully in the closet, right? And adapt back to the 98 degree Texas weather in healthy ways, with healthy coping skills, right? Yeah.
Kelle: Yes, yes. So true. And you can appreciate your people-pleasing tendencies for keeping you safe and decide that you're ready to practice stating your preferences directly.
Nina: Yeah, you can acknowledge your over-functioning for helping you feel valuable and choose to let other people carry their own responsibilities.
Kelle: The key to all this is making these changes from a place of choice rather than self-rejection.
Nina: Yeah, so what does this look like practically? How do you actually practice self-acceptance in your daily life, right?
Kelle: Okay, first, notice your internal dialogue. When you catch yourself people-pleasing or over-functioning, what's the story you tell yourself about it?
Nina: Yeah, are you saying things like, "I'm so weak, I'm such a mess," or, "I should know better by now," or, "Why can't I just set boundaries?" right?
Kelle: Or you can shift to something like, "This pattern served me once, and it makes sense that it's still here. I'm learning new ways to feel safe and connected."
Nina: Yeah, and second here, get curious about your triggers. What situations make you most likely to abandon yourself? And Kelle and I define triggers as it's your wounding, one of your wounds that's being reopened, right? So get curious about what that wound is. What situations make you most likely to abandon yourself?
Kelle: Yeah, and I just want to say, a lot of times people will say that they triggered me, right? Like, or that situation triggered me, but really, I'm not going to get too far in the weeds, but it's your thoughts about the situation, or the person, or what they said. Okay.
Nina: And it's probably a reflection of something that's hurt you in the past, right? A wound. Yeah, some sort of wounding.
Kelle: Yes, and that's not a bad thing. It's actually a really good thing. But okay, we're going to get, I'm coming back. I'm coming back.
Nina: Okay, so understanding your patterns isn't about judging them. It's about developing compassion for the circumstances that activate your survival strategies, right? That wake you up, wake those parts of you up.
Kelle: And third, practice tiny experiments in self-honoring. Start small, right? Share one authentic preference. Say no to one thing you don't want to do.
Nina: Yeah, but here's the key, right? Do it from a place of self-acceptance, not like self-improvement.
Kelle: Yeah, the energy is completely different. When you're trying to fix yourself, there's this underlying message that you're currently broken.
Nina: But when you're accepting yourself while also choosing new behaviors, there's this sense of, I'm okay as I am, and I'm ready to expand, right?
Kelle: It's so true. So true. Now, let's address that elephant in the room. What happens when you start accepting yourself, but other people aren't ready for that version of you?
Nina: Ooh, this happens. This is real. When you stop abandoning yourself to make others comfortable, some people are going to have feelings about it, thoughts and feelings about it.
Kelle: Yeah. The people who benefited from you people-pleasing might not love your new boundaries.
Nina: Yeah, those systems that relied on your over-functioning might resist your new approach to responsibility.
Kelle: And this is where your nervous system is going to want to revert back to old patterns to help keep the peace.
Nina: Yeah, your body is going to interpret their discomfort as danger and want you to go back to managing their emotions.
Kelle: But here's what we need you to remember. Other people's discomfort with your growth is not your problem. It's not your emergency to worry about.
Nina: Yeah, their reaction to your self-acceptance says nothing about whether your self-acceptance is right or wrong.
Kelle: It just means that they've gotten comfortable with a version of you that required self-abandonment.
Nina: And that's not your problem to solve by going back to rejecting yourself, right? In fact, your self-acceptance gives other people permission to accept themselves too.
Kelle: Yeah, when you stop performing and start being authentic, you create space for real connection. And the relationships that can handle your authenticity will get deeper and more meaningful.
Nina: And the ones that can't, those were built on a foundation that wasn't sustainable anyway. Kelle, what's the quote? It's like...
Kelle: Oh my God, Nina, I was just going to bring that up.
Nina: Really? Oh my God. We share a brain. It's not that you're leaving them behind, it's that they're not coming with you. It's something like that, right?
Kelle: Exactly. Nina: On your journey.
Kelle: Yeah. Thank you.
Nina: Yeah.
Kelle: Alright, let's talk about what becomes possible when self-acceptance becomes your foundation instead of self-abandonment.
Nina: Okay, here we go. Your decision-making gets so much clearer. When you're not constantly second-guessing yourself, you can actually hear your own intuition.
Kelle: It's so true. And I'm just going to say, I had a situation, I had a family situation. It's a family emergency, and people wanted me to hop on a flight that same day and move from a place of fear-based. And I was just like, I felt it, and I was just like, there's no way. There's no way I'm jumping on a plane today. And I got so much flack from people that I really love about it. And I was just like, I'm not doing it. And people did not love that. And I felt like totally solid in my decision about it. And it turned out to be the right decision for me. And it's just like that listening to you, even when other people are not going to like it at all.
Nina: Yeah, totally could have shape-shifted and rallied and said yes when you meant no. Yeah, but you didn't.
Kelle: And then I would have been resentful about it.
Nina: Resentment rash.
Kelle: So listening to yourself is key, and those relationships become, your relationships, I should say, become even more authentic because you're not constantly managing other people's perception of you.
Nina: Imagine this, your energy level just is so different. It improves because you're not burning fuel on internal battles between who you are and who you think you should be, right?
Kelle: Yeah. Going back to that who you think you should be. If I was a “good daughter,” I would have hopped on a plane, right? As quote-unquote “good daughter” back in the day. And it's just like, no, I'm an amazing daughter and I'm checking in with, you know, mine. And I'll see you Friday.
Nina: And I'll see you Friday.
Kelle: Yes. Yes. I'm still going, and I'm just going at the end of the week. And listen, when you do this, your creativity expands because there's space for all parts of you to exist and contribute.
Nina: Yeah, and your nervous system finally gets to relax because you're not constantly vigilant about whether you're too much or good or bad or not enough, right? But maybe most importantly, you become a safe space for yourself.
Nina: Oh, you come home to yourself, right? Instead of being your own worst critic, you become your own ally, like your own teammate, your most trusted friend.
Kelle: And when you create a safe space for yourself, you can take risks, try new things, and handle challenges from a completely different foundation.
Nina: Because you know that no matter what happens, you're not going to abandon yourself in the process.
Kelle: It's so true. So true. All right, let's get practical. If you're ready to start building a foundation of self-acceptance, here's where to begin.
Nina: Yeah, here's step one. Notice when you're being self-critical and just ask, what was this pattern trying to protect me from, right? Get curious, not judgmental.
Kelle: All right, and step two, practice talking to yourself the way you talk to a good friend. You wouldn't tell your friend they're weak for having survival strategies, so don't tell yourself that either.
Nina: Yeah. Step three here, identify one small way you've been abandoning yourself lately. Maybe it's agreeing to plans you don't want, right? Like Kelle. Or staying quiet when you have something to say.
Kelle: And step four, choose one tiny experiment in honor of yourself this week. Express one preference, set one small boundary, or share one authentic thought.
Nina: Yeah, share your opinion. And step five here, when other people react to your authenticity, remind yourself their discomfort is not evidence that you're doing anything wrong.
Kelle: Yeah, remember, this isn't about perfection. It's about progress. It's about slowly rebuilding trust with yourself. And every time you choose self-acceptance over self-abandonment, you're creating new neural pathways. You're teaching your nervous system that it's safe to be you.
Nina: Yeah, totally. Okay, so before we wrap up, we want to address something directly. Your worth was never conditional on how much you could shrink yourself for others. And the love and belonging you've been seeking through self-abandonment, you can't actually get it that way.
Kelle: Yeah, because the connection that requires you to reject parts of yourself isn't real connection. It's not real connection. I'm just going to underline that. It's performance. It's pretending. And love that depends on you being someone you're not isn't real love. It's approval for the character that you've been playing.
Nina: Real love and belonging can only exist when you're actually present as yourself. And that requires self-acceptance. It requires you to believe that who you are, all of who you are, is worthy of love and belonging. Not because you're perfect, but because you're human. Not because you never make mistakes, but because you're worthy of compassion.
Kelle: It's so true. Your sensitivity isn't too much. Your needs aren't too demanding. Your voice, listen, your voice is not too loud, right? You've just been in spaces that were too small for who you actually are.
Nina: And the beautiful thing about self-acceptance is that it creates the foundation for you to find and create spaces that are big enough for all of you. So here's the permission slip, Rockstars. Everything you've done to this point makes complete sense.
Kelle: Every way you've learned to survive, every strategy you've used to get love, every pattern you've developed, it all makes sense. That's one thing that we always do in our coaching practice. We want to make sure that our clients understand that the way they do things, what they developed made sense at the time, and they don't necessarily have to keep showing up that way anymore.
Nina: You can honor where you've been and consciously choose where you're going. You can appreciate your survival strategies and develop new ways of being that serve who you're becoming.
Kelle: Because self-acceptance isn't the end of your growth. It's the beginning of sustainable transformation. It's the foundation that makes everything else possible.
Nina: Your journey of self-acceptance is going to be messy and imperfect, and that's exactly as it should be. There'll be days when you slip back into old patterns, and that's not failure, that's being human. The goal isn't to never abandon yourself again. The goal is to notice when it happens and gently guide yourself back to acceptance.
Kelle: And remember, you're not trying to become someone new. You're trying to become more fully yourself. I'm going to actually scratch the trying and just say you are becoming more fully yourself.
Nina: Yeah, the person you are underneath all those survival strategies, that person is worth knowing. That person is worth accepting. That person is worth celebrating.
Kelle: All right, Rockstars, let's wrap this up for today. If this episode resonated with you, share it with someone who needs to hear it.
Nina: Yeah, and remember your worth was never conditional on your willingness to disappear, to play small. Your time is now.
Kelle: All right, thank you so much for being here. We will see you soon. We're not sure when, but we will see you next time, right?
Nina: Yeah. See you next time.
Hey Rockstars, ready to make this fall different? To stop cycling through the same old patterns of people pleasing, perfectionism, and overwhelm? It's time to break free. We have limited spots open for coaching this fall. So schedule a consultation with us at kelleandnina.com and let's get to work on actually implementing the tools and systems, and concepts that you hear us talk about here on Ambitious-ish, so you can actually enjoy the life you work so hard to create. Don't wait. This is your reset opportunity. Visit kelleandnina.com.
Kelle: Thank you so much for listening to today’s episode of Ambitious-Ish.
Nina: If you’re ready to align your ambitions with your heart and feel more calm, balanced, and connected, visit KelleAndNina.com for more information about how to work with us and make sure you get on our list.
Kelle: See you in the next episode!
Enjoy the Show?
Don’t miss an episode, follow the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts!
Next
Next