64. Productivity, Patriarchy and Pleasure with Danielle Savory

Written By Kelle Cobble & Nina Lynch

What's lighting you up in your life? Not just what you're checking off your to-do list, but what genuinely brings you pleasure? As high-achieving women, we've been conditioned to prioritize productivity over pleasure, leaving little room for what actually makes us feel alive.

We're diving deep with pleasure expert Danielle Savory into why we struggle to receive and experience pleasure in our lives. Danielle helps women reconnect with their bodies, desires, and pleasure as a form of fuel rather than a reward. She's opening our eyes to how the patriarchy and productivity culture have disconnected us from our own desires, teaching us to look desirable while remaining completely out of touch with what we actually want.

In this conversation, we explore why scheduling pleasure can be revolutionary, how to reconnect with your desires when you don't even know what they are anymore, and why your nervous system plays such a crucial role in your ability to receive pleasure. If you've been feeling disconnected from joy, struggling to ask for what you need, or simply ready to feel more lit up in your life, this episode is your permission slip to prioritize pleasure.

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What You’ll Learn from this Episode:

  • How to reframe pleasure as fuel for your ambition rather than a reward you must earn.

  • Why your nervous system needs to feel safe before you can truly receive pleasure.

  • How to schedule pleasure (including sex) with intention and excitement rather than obligation.

  • How to practice desire when you don't even know what you want anymore.

  • Why play and pleasure might feel uncomfortable at first for high-achieving women.

  • The connection between feminine energy, softness, and allowing yourself to receive.

Listen to the Full Episode:

Featured on the Show:

Full Episode Transcript:

Kelle: Hey, High Achiever, question for you. What's lighting you up? Seriously, give it a think.

Nina: Yeah, right. Like what delights you when you want to feel pleasure? What does that look like and what do you ask for?

Kelle: Today, we're diving deep into something that's been buried under productivity and patriarchy for far too long. Another P word, pleasure.

Nina: Yeah, we are joined by the perspective shifting Danielle Savory, a savant coach and thought leader who is here to help us reclaim what was always ours, the right to feel good, be nourished, and connect to our bodies on our own terms.

Kelle: From rewriting the stories we've been fed about sexuality and desirability to healing our relationships with our bodies, Danielle guides us into a new way of being, one where pleasure isn't just allowed, it's essential.

Nina: Because when women are truly supported from the inside out, everybody wins.

Kelle: If you've ever felt disconnected from your desires, unsure how to ask for what you need or even want, or you're just ready to feel more lit up in your life, this conversation is your permission slip.

Nina: Yeah, we're lucky enough to get some of our own coaching from Danielle here, right, Kel?

Kelle: Love it.

Nina: You're definitely going to want to forward this one to all the women in your life.

Kelle: All right, let's get going. This is Ambitious-ish.

Burnout? Check. Daily overwhelm? Check. Resentment rash, stress, and a complete lack of well-being? Check, check, check! You’re not alone. We’re your hosts, Kelle & Nina, and we are here to help you feel calm, balanced, and empowered so you can redefine success, make choices that feel authentic, and ACTUALLY enjoy the life you work so hard to create. You ready? Let’s go.

Kelle: Hey, I'm Kelle.

Nina: And I'm Nina. Today, we are so pumped to be joined on the pod by the one and only Danielle Savory. She is what we consider the thought leader and absolute badass coach who specializes in all things pleasure. And I have to say personally, like whenever the word pleasure comes out of my mouth, like it's inspired by Danielle. She's opened me up to just so many different possibilities and ways of looking at all this.

We love Danielle's work for so many reasons, but above all, she's teaching us, us especially, specifically us high-achieving, ambitious drivers, to actually prioritize and give ourselves permission to feel pleasure. Right, Danielle? A pleasured woman is an empowered woman, is what we hear you say a lot. So thanks for being here today.

Before we jump in, for the busy women who have taken time to be here and listen and learn from you today, what might change for this person if they take what you say today, what would they learn from you, and how would it change their life?

Danielle: Great question. You know, I think the main thing that I would hope that you would take away from this conversation, wherever it may go, because we have so many different avenues, I'm sure that we'll take here, is just to start to reframe the idea of pleasure in general as a fuel for us, not as a reward. Because I think especially for those of us that are ambitious and have a lot that we wanna do in our lives, pleasure doesn't sound like something that we would use as a tool, but it can be such a really effective tool for our brains, for our bodies, for our connections and our relationships.

And when we start to really pair it with our ambition or pair it with our productivity or our schedule and use it to help, like drive focus and drive desire and drive like this deep connection that we really want. The result of that in your life is a lot more satisfaction, and making your ambition worth it. Like making it really like worth our efforts because at the end of the day, we have so many goals, we have so many big things that we wanna do in our life, but what's the point at the end of the day?

Like really, what is the point of this? And to be able to feel the fruits of your labor at such a deep level, to really feel the satisfaction and just this zest of life that we're all truly seeking. I think that's really what I hope people take away from our conversation.

Nina: Give us a little bit of background about why women come work with you, what you do, all the things.

Danielle: Yeah, I think a lot of different people work with me for different reasons, you know, on a very bigger scale. I'm kind of known as like the sex coach for women out there. And that is definitely things that I work with. I have a lot of women who they would consider this to be a pain point in their life. It is uncomfortable. That's not something they want. It's a conversation that comes up in their partnerships and their marriage. They've never really felt good about this part of their life. So that's one area of women that I definitely help.

But then on the other side of that, there's a lot of women that I meet in person and they wouldn't consider this to be like a not good area. They're just like, I hear you talk about pleasure at such this like bigger level, like kind of how we started this conversation and how I can use it as fuel. And I'm just really ready to get out of just doing all of these things to like make my life fine. Like I wanna see what else is there.

So it's instead of starting from this place of this is a problem, I need to fix it, like a lot of the women, and I would say a majority of the women that I work with is like this is a growth opportunity for me. Like, what else is there for me? And how can I use pleasure as this fuel, and like, show me what else is out there? Show me how we can really optimize like my life, my body, my partnership. And they see this as kind of like that pinnacle of this self-growth journey that they're on.

Nina: Crazy that pleasure is part of self-growth, self-development, right? That we're having this conversation right now. It just hasn't been a part of it, right?

Kelle: Yeah. Yeah, we just got off a call with a prospective client and she was saying she wants more white space, more space for the things that are important to her. And she does this meticulous planning, and she's working on summer camp planning and getting a walk in. Which, oh my God, summer camp planning is just like a whole other level of anxiety for me.

Danielle: We just had the whole conversation with my husband about this. I was like, “I need you to see the mental load involved in this. You're gonna sit through it with every fucking painful moment.” Sorry, I don't know if we're allowed to curse. But like every moment with me, because you need to get it. And he was like, “Okay,” and he was like, “This is awful.” I was like, “Right? Right? It is.”

Kelle: Right. Yeah.

Danielle: Right there with you.

Nina: I’m like sweating thinking about it. It’s so stressful. Ugh. Yes.

Danielle: The fact that I even have to do this, where’s the village?

Kelle: Right. You all are just making my point because she was saying summer camp planning, getting a walk in, riding the Peloton. Nowhere in there was pleasure or wanting intimacy with her partner, or any of that. None of that was on the list. It was just like still tactical. Like, my one hour a day is getting a Peloton ride, and it has nothing to do with having actual pleasure.

Danielle: Yes, yes. And I think that she's not alone. It's not even considered in the realm, like when you look at our, you know, whether it's your social media feed or just the conversations that you might have at a barbecue or something over the summer, there is still so many shoulds for a woman. And even though a lot of like these shoulds are around things that could help our overall well-being like going on a walk or peloton or making sure that you do have space just to breathe, a lot of it is still because like this is the things that we should be doing, or if we want to like you know feel really good this is like the kind of stuff that we should be putting into our life. But pleasure isn't really considered part of it because we're still focused on the doing, like all of those things were still like a doing, and pleasure, I look at, is more of an experience of how you're doing those things.

Even if you're doing a Peloton ride or you're going on a walk, is it still from this mindset that this is one more thing to check off my list? Are you fully present for it? Are you walking and talking and using that time to catch up with a friend, which there's nothing wrong with, or listen to something else on a podcast that you should be implementing in your life? Or are you truly like looking around and smelling the roses.

I live in Portland, Oregon, so there's literally roses everywhere right now. And I don't know how many times I made my husband stop when we just went on a walk for Mother's Day the other morning, because I smelled like every single one. But like really just taking the time to smell, as cliche as it sounds, like to let ourselves be lit up by all of things that are around us. And it sounds cheesy, but it makes the biggest difference in the world.

Nina: So interesting. And I'm thinking of this consultation we were just on, too. These women want balance who come to work with us, right? And I'm guessing you, too. And they think pleasure isn't part of that equation. It's work-life. Kelle and I define balance as like work, play, rest. It's not even like work-life. It's work, play, rest. And play is always like a zero or a one on a scale of one to 10.

You know, they don't even know what play, pleasure, they're not connected to their desires. We're taught, and I've heard you say this, Danielle, that like we're taught as women to look desirable, to focus on looking desirable, but we're completely disconnected from our own desires. Like what we want, like what we want if we've got an hour, what would delight us? What would be pleasurable?

Danielle: Yes, absolutely. And I think that the hard part, and I have gone through this myself and still do in certain ways, right, is that choosing play actually doesn't feel playful at the beginning. It feels horrible because we're so used to doing, that it's way easier to be in project mode or planning mode or scheduling mode. And we say that we want all these things, and I think we deep down we do, but we also don't realize that at the beginning, play is going to feel worse than doing. Pleasure is going to feel worse than doing.

Which sounds like such an oxymoron, but because it's so unfamiliar to our brain and it feels truly unsafe to our nervous system, there is this level of discomfort that you really have to lean into to not just give yourself mental permission for rest, which is what we talk about all the time, but to learn how to practice it.

Because it doesn't come naturally for those of us that have been in giving mode, that have been in doing mode, that have been in going mode for so long, there is going to be this period at the beginning when you're starting to play around, you know, no pun intended with this kind of stuff, that it doesn't actually feel playful. It feels forced, it feels weird. And then you're like, I'd rather just go back to project. And it's like, it's just because you're so conditioned to not be here that it does come as a feeling of unsafety to your brain and to your body because it's so unfamiliar to us.

Nina: Why are we obsessed with being so productive? Why are we in go mode? Like what is…

Danielle: Great question.

Nina: Where is this coming from?

Danielle: The patriarchy, to make it the most simple answer, really. It's the patriarchal system that we live in and the way that we have been conditioned to survive. And I think it's all genders that are the productivity, right? Us, really being like seeing our value and our worth and being told that our value and our worth is in what we do, what we produce, what we achieve. That, of course, on the subconscious level, we're going to continue to do those things because ultimately, at the end of the day, we want to have a sense of belonging. And that is always really what our brain is searching for, is to feel like we belong, to feel like we're connected.

And when we get these reinforcing messages when we're young, whether it's like from school or from our family, or like, oh my gosh, you did such a good job, or thank you for helping for the house, or I really appreciate this, we start to associate love, belonging, validation, with the doing, and then over time, that just becomes part of our habit.

I mean, how many times do we get praised for laying on the couch, right? Or even like young children, like the ones that are in play or imagination, you start to see it from certain very young age, like get your head out of the clouds. Like, we've got to get to work. We've got to start doing this. Like you're too old to be playing those games. You need to start taking yourself seriously, even in high school, right? You've got to start thinking about the career that you're going to do. How is you messing around in drama going to help you if you really want to become a doctor someday? We get these kind of messages consistently that we are not going to be successful, or we're not going to be liked, or we're not going to be praised for things that are associated with pleasure and play.

Kelle: Yeah. Yeah, you just unleashed the P words, right? Patriarchy and productivity. And I feel like we could do a whole episode just on this. But it seems like they go hand in hand, right? And we are feminists, which is not anti-male, right? It's just pro-female and pro-feminine rights. And we talk a lot about masculine energy versus feminine energy and how I'm sure you and like a lot of your people too slant a lot on the masculine, and you've had to train yourself to bring in that feminine. And that feminine energy, it seems like pleasure and feminine energy go hand in hand, right?

Danielle: Yeah. And I think it's also, it's semantics. You know, for a lot of us is just like understanding the words that really resonate with us, too, can also be a big barrier for brains. At least I know that, you know, growing up in Portland, Oregon, where it's a bit more crunchy and a bit more like granola. And we see so many of these practices like everywhere now. But at the time, like yoga, meditation, all these sorts of things. The way that they talked about it was with a lot more of this feminine type energy or goddess energy or these kind of things. And I just want to say for anybody listening, if any of those words don't resonate with you, find the words that do.

Because for me, being trained as a neuroscientist, even the word feminine didn't land with me, you know? And so understanding, we can understand why, and we can also just use different words, you know? And so for me, the softness resonated more, like being soft, or being receptive, you know. Which are terms that we would put into this feminine energy, but like understanding, like even when we say feminine or masculine, what are we meaning?

You know, it's like that go, that's head forward energy. We’re feminine, we might consider to be like dropped into our body, soft, able to receive, you know, So, helping yourself even define these, then that can help you to like starting to understand what are the qualities and traits that I am operating on right now, and what are some of those qualities and traits I want to dial back on, and what are some of the ones that I really want to dial up on, can be so clarifying for those of us that don't resonate with feminine, masculine, or goddess energy, or Shakti or whatever it might be is like, get really clear what this means.

Because as you start to see it, it might not feel like such a bad taste in your mouth. You're like, oh yeah, I do wanna have a softness. Oh yeah, I do wanna be able to be open to receive more. I do wanna have more of this playful, flirty energy, like all of those sound very appealing. So I think also just for anybody listening, if you're like me, that has a hard time with certain words, like find the words that work, because that does make a difference when we're working on mindset in our brain.

Kelle: Danielle, I'm so glad that you said that. We have a couple episodes on feminine and masculine energy and bringing some other words in, like being energy for that feminine energy, right? And doing energy for the masculine. So we'll link those in the show notes. Thank you for that.

Danielle: I love it. I'm gonna go listen to those episodes too.

Nina: You landed on something though, where I'd like to double click on something you said there about receiving. I think this is big for the women we work with, is being open to receiving. Cause I don't think you can experience pleasure without giving yourself permission to receive it. And why is that so hard?

Danielle: Well, part of it, I mean, Just from a very scientific level, before we get into all of the socialization with it, when you think about our nervous system, and I love that you talk so much, whether it's on your socials, or on this podcast about nervous system regulation and creating that safety in our nervous system, because that really is at the crux of a lot of what we're talking about. Because when we are in productivity, when we are in this part of our nervous system that typically is fight, flight, or freeze, or on energy, like stressful, like getting stuff done. We wouldn't necessarily consider it as like fight, fight, or freeze, but it's definitely like go mode type energy.

This isn't the time from a physiological like place for us to receive. You know, even if we are talking about sexual pleasure, like if you've got a lot going on and you feel like you're literally getting chased by the deadlines of a tiger down the Serengeti, you're not gonna stop and drop your drawers and allow yourself to receive some nookie. That's just not the time for it, right? And so we also have to pay attention to, it's not just us on this mental level having a hard time receiving. When your nervous system is here, it’s like there's actual physical guards up. Your body is ready to fight the thing that's in front of you, or run away from it, or if you can't fight or run away, then it's just gonna be in freeze mode. And freeze, you can't receive. In fight mode, you're throwing punches, right? And then obviously in fleeing, we're running away.

And so just understanding that, oh yeah, my nervous system isn't even in a place to receive, for me, allowed me to have so much more self-compassion for myself. Like I'm not actually like this crazy, like masochist, like always go, go, go. Like, I just am not in the right mode right now in my body or physiologically, I actually can't receive. So that's kind of our first like cue in is to understand that it's like, even if you were to be open to receiving, you don't know when you're in that part of your nervous system, right? All alerts are on. Usually we don't have as much connection to like our emotional and our connection part in our compassion, and empathy, and all these other things that would allow us to actually connect and receive.

And so first and foremost, like, identify what part of mode of your nervous system you're in before you start, like, what's wrong with me? Why can't I receive? And it's like, well, because you're on high alert, like, straight up, you're not in a place for it. But then from a sociological level, you know, I just feel that receiving is something that is really hard for so many of us women, because it does require a softening, and that requires a vulnerability, and that requires trust. And we are socialized to be the givers, to be the ones to help our families emotionally, to hold space for other people's stuff.

So, to be able to take it in is a very vulnerable place. It is something where you have to allow yourself to drop the shields, to drop the guards, and to be open to possible harm. You know, that's literally the definition of vulnerability. And I can see it from the ways that we even have a hard time accepting a compliment from somebody or from a friend, or making like, deflecting, you know. I know this for me, it's like someone says something about how I look or an outfit, and I'm like, oh yeah, I got this, blah, blah, blah. Who cares where I fucking got it?

But for some reason, my brain just wants to go to that because it's so much more comfortable than just saying, thank you. I take that in and bringing it in. And then, when it comes to receive help, like yesterday was Mother's Day when we're recording this. I see so many women just struggling to receive because we also have ways that we want things done. So, can we let go of certain things? Can we have that trust?

And then when it comes to the bedroom, again, it has not really been a focus about our pleasure. And even if it is maybe our pleasure, part of it is like on the subconscious level, to make our partners feel good about the job they're doing for us, rather than for us actually receiving pleasure, for all the attention. And so many women that I coached, they are just like, I'm just not comfortable with the attention on me like that. I'm not comfortable with that kind of attention to be able to just lay back and receive. I'm so much more comfortable, whether it's in a complimentary state or with friends and family, or with a lover, it's so much easier focusing on what's gonna make them happy, than it is for what's gonna make me happy and turned on.

Nina: You're touching on something that I've heard you say, too. Part of this is our conditioning, right? Because when we're young girls, we're taught to be desirable, but not too desirable, right? Not to be slutty, but not to let too much go. And it's like this confusing, like…

Danielle: We can never win. Right? It's like, you're a slut if you do, you're a tease if you don't, you know? And there's like a very small pocket we're allowed to be, if we are getting just into the sexual place, right? That you're allowed to be sexual, which is like starting to court somebody and like after you're married, but then like once you're a mother, like you probably should be focusing on your kids, like you're done, right? You know, so it's just really tricky because we can't win.

And I think, I even recently, I don't know if it was in the Super Bowl or somewhere, there was a Nike, I think it was the Nike women's commercial, that were showing so many of these opposite sort of like responses. And then it's just kind of like, if we can't win here, if we can't win if we do it, and if we can't win when we do it out, then just win, right? Like, just kind of like it was this whole thing of like just win and understanding that there has been a lot of socialization.

Like if we are, receiving, or if we feel confident, or if we take on help that we're not resourceful, we're not independent, we're not go-getter women. I'm seeing all these like type B, C, A women. Like we're less than, right? And then if we do too much, then we're type A. We don't care about our family. We're always controlling. We're always getting it done. Or it's like, well, what should we be? I'm like, be happy and turned on and pleasurable. Like, at the end of the day, if we can't win, then just win.

Kelle: Now, I was listening to one of your podcasts back, I think in 2024, and you were interviewing someone, and you were talking about women's pleasure and understanding that we deserve pleasure in our lives. Can you talk more about that?

Danielle: Yes, what part about it? Like, I'm just like, duh, yeah, birthright, we deserve it.

Kelle: Right, right, but I think that because it goes along with receiving, right? And feeling like we're worthy to receive, but also feeling like, you know what, on Mother's Day, I kind of just want to go sit at the pool by myself, and just hang out by myself and not receive any thing or any attention or anything. I just want to kind of go be by myself for a couple hours and feeling worthy enough to be like, hey, this is actually what's really speaking to me, not like taking a bike ride with kids to brunch and like spending the whole day together.

Danielle: Yeah, yeah. Again, it comes to expectations, and I think tapping into what lights our body up and also being discerning of what we do wanna receive. But coming back to your question of like, are we deserving of pleasure? You know, I think everybody is in our life. Like just because we exist. And I think this word deserving can get very tricky for a lot of us because deserving can also equate to earning, and we just wanna be careful of when we're talking about deserving and earning, right?

It's like, I hear it in so much common language. It comes out when I'm not being really conscious of my words somewhere. It's like, oh my gosh, I deserve a break now. You know, and it's like, I did the thing and now I deserve a break. And so I think that understanding like a deserving is just, it just is. Like it can also be not like I deserve this because I earned it, but because I exist as a human being.

Like when we look at kids, you know, it's so easy for us to be like, of course, you want to feel good. Of course, you want to play. Of course, you need rest. You know, like these very basic things, because you're growing, because you're a human being, because you've been socializing for this long, you need some quiet time alone. Like that makes so much sense to us.

And then we start to change the rules somewhere along the way, that somehow as adults, we have to earn these normal human, what I believe to be human rights, just as a human being that exists on this planet, as a worthy individual. And so much of women that I see are socialized to think that they are worthy or deserve because, and then fill in the thing. Where it's just like, but what if we just take away the because? Like I'm worthy for pleasure. I'm deserving of pleasure. Period. Like end of sentence.

Nina: Period.

Kelle: Yeah.

Nina: Yeah. It's so interesting. I am pretty much divorced now. We're getting there. So Mother's Day is different. Like my partner isn't here to scoop the kids up and remind them to do stuff for me and to support me on Mother's Day, like I have the kids. So this year, I asked them to make cards for me. I was like, don't forget to make a card for me. And so they both wrote these beautiful cards that I just cherish. And it didn't matter that I had to ask. I just am so open to receiving their love. I'm just like going to ask for it. It was so cool and interesting.

And that reminded me of a conversation I had with my coach, Danielle, who you know, Melissa Parsons. I am like by no means aggressively dating now. I love the people who do and who are, but I'm just lightly dating. And I was explaining to her just where I am with all of that. And I was like, you know, I'm just taking things really slow. I'm coming out of a very challenging marriage, emotionally. And I'm just taking all of this really slow. And she's like, well, and Melissa's a doctor, so she's always reminding us to put our sunscreen on, to put a condom on, and to be safe and healthy and all the things. Thank you, Melissa.

But she's like, you know, Nina, why do you have to take things slow? Why do you have to pump the brakes on your pleasure right now? What if you just went out and had some fun? Carefully, not irresponsibly. But I was like, I couldn't even answer her question. I was just like, I don't even know what you mean. I was like, what do you mean, go have fun and give myself permission to feel pleasure? Especially right now. She's like, especially right now, you're coming out of so much pain, such a painful place for so long, like why not? And I could not even answer the question. I had to take it and sit with it and think about it.

Danielle: And I think that's the thing a lot of women come up with is when we actually sit down and ask ourselves these questions, we can't really come up with a good reason, right? It's just kind of how it has been, how I have been operating, because that's just not what you do, right? And that is why I think putting a pin in it and her asking that kind of question, or why I encourage so many women, like that's why I love starting with sex, right? Like most people, they're like, you totally tricked me that this was like a podcast on sex when really it's a podcast on self-compassion, but we can't see all of these things. We can't learn to meet ourselves until we put a marker of aiming for it.

And that's why I love encouraging women to plan for pleasure and to put sex on the calendar, or like what Melissa said, like go and do this, not because we necessarily are there yet, right? Or that we should quote unquote “be there yet” or do these things, but because of everything that it brings up, that we get a chance to look at.

You know, that question, her putting that as a possible thing for you to aim for, allowed you to, and I'm not gonna speak for you, but from what you just said, right, is like bring to the surface of like, yeah, why wouldn't I? Like, what is getting in the way? Is it a worthiness thing? Is it a scheduling thing? Like all of these sorts of things get brought up when we decide to prioritize pleasure, when we decide to make that the goal, all of the other reasons and things that are blocking us from it quickly come to the surface.

Nina: It is such an interesting exercise. So like, where might you, I know every woman is different, but where might you suggest someone start to reconnect with their desires or pleasure? Where does a busy, ambitious woman...

Danielle: How long do we have? No, no. I would honestly say, I mean, the first thing is like one of the most effective exercises I see is to schedule sex. So easy, right? like, “so easy,” quote unquote, to do, not so easy to follow through with, and not schedule it so that you just show up, but to schedule it to have a really good time. Schedule it..

Nina: That's missing. That's what’s missing.

Danielle: Yes. Schedule it with the aim for it to, like, blow your mind. Schedule it with the aim that you're going to be excited about it and turned on by it, right? And that doesn't happen right away. And so when we put it on the calendar, it's not just so that we like make sure that the bumping of boots is happening. Like, we put it on the calendar, so we can see all these other reasons of like, oh my gosh, I'm feeling pressure. Oh my gosh, I don't feel like I have time. Oh my gosh, like the expectations. I'm not feeling really into it. Like we do that to bring up all this stuff to see, and I hate to call it work, but to see where our work is, right?

When it's like play and rest and receiving are that out of reach, that is a marker for you of like, oh, my practice this week is to receive. My practice this week is to practice being quiet and still, you know, so that my mind isn't racing during sex. Like all of these things kind of line up and give us insight into the kind of qualities and traits and things that we really are wanting to focus on from a personal growth standpoint, from the place where, what does it look like to learn this like turned on, satisfied life?

Well, we can cognitively work through it, but when you put something on the calendar like that, that's when you get to see all of the blocks you have to it to begin with. That's when you get to see all of the excuses, and I'm saying in that in the best loving way, that come to the surface of to procrastinate it or to push it off, or this isn't working for me, or it's not really a full body yes, so I'm not going to. And it's like, okay, but why? Why isn't it one?

That's our place to focus on, yeah. What do I need to practice? Oh yeah, that's why I call the practice of pleasure. Because it is a practice, this isn't a given. It's not easy for us. It goes against so many things that we've learned, but also the way that we operate as human beings in this modern world. And so it has to become more familiar to our brains and our nervous systems. And the more that you get to kind of bring light to where we can do that, the better the sex is, the better the turn on is, the more desire that we have, but it's not just about like some mind-blowing orgasm.

I mean, those are great, like don't get me wrong. And I'm so glad for the work because I didn't even know I could have orgasms like that, but like awesome, but it's because I'm living my life now. So I feel connected to my body. So I'm leaning into my husband instead of leaning away. So that I'm dancing in the kitchen. So I'm cuddling with my kids every single morning. Because I slow down and take a bath. Because I put lotion on with presence. You know, it's like all these other little moments that compound, that kind of elevates the whole experience. But when you start with, because I want to make this one experience better, you realize it is kind of this compound effect of things that you're paying attention to throughout your day that are going to like add up and make that one experience a week that much better.

Kelle: Two things, Nina, last week we had a call with a client, and her homework was to go do something pleasurable. Like, what feels pleasurable for you today?

Nina: This was great, yeah.

Kelle: Nina, what did she do?

Danielle: How hard was that for her?

Nina: She, we go, I asked, I think I asked her, I was like, “Rockstar, what can you do today that would just delight you, that would just bring so much pleasure?: And she goes, “a burger. I just want to eat a burger, a cheeseburger”. And I just, we just started laughing. And she sent us later that day, this picture of this gorgeous burger in her… yeah, but she was like, at first she was like, I don't even know what I desire, what would be pleasurable. And when she gave it a beat, it was a burger.

Danielle: Yeah, yeah. And I just think that's such a great way to like illustrate, like how, like we don't know what we want, you know? And so, even coming back to your question is like, how does a woman start? It's like, I put that on as like a measurement of revealing to you practices and things that you can do in order to make that appointment that you have easier and more amazing. But the desire part, you know, I started, this was probably 18 years ago. Oh my goodness, I'm totally aging myself now. But like, it was so long ago where I just started making it a weekly practice, or every couple of days, where I said I want at the top of the page, dot, dot, dot. And I just let a stream of consciousness.

Like, it would start with maybe like, I want a burger. I want to go for a walk. I want more free time. I want my kids to leave me alone. I want my husband to like do whatever. And just like, let it all go without judgment, without paying attention really to what you're saying. But we have to practice desire too. Like pleasure and desire are practices. Both of these things that we can create and cultivate, but you have to practice them on purpose; they don't just happen. And I think that's the main misconception out there is that desire should just happen. You know, that pleasure should just happen, yes.

And it's really this focus of like, what is my brain paying attention to, and how can I shift my focus over here, realizing that pleasure is occurring at any given moment, all we need to do is wake our senses up to it. Any moment of your entire life, there's something pleasurable there, and we just aren't paying attention.

Kelle: So true. Heads down, right? What's the next task I need to get through?

Danielle: Like I can see like, at least like 25 things right here in this room that bring me pleasure, you know? Or even like the feeling like I'm wearing a comfortable, not wireless bra right now. If I drop my attention down into my breasts, I was like, God, this feels good. Like it feels really good right now in this bra, right? Like, that's what I'm saying. We have so many sensory experiences that, by nature, your brain is going to filter out. So we have to train our brain to find them and seek them out regularly, so we can remind ourselves of the good because it is there.

Nina: Really, what you pay attention to grows. I mean, we talk about this all the time, but not as much as we could when it comes to pleasure and desire, right? Especially this one client we referred to about the burger. She was just so depleted. She was literally running on empty, with fires in every area of her life.

Danielle: With that red meat.

Nina: Yeah, and literally, I mean, this was such a visceral, true, vulnerable, honest response to like, what would bring you pleasure right now? It just so land… It was just beautifully perfect. Yeah. It was great.

Danielle: Yeah. And then once we get past those survival things of pleasure, then you get to start like going to like, what really is going to light me up, not what's just going to bring me to baseline. And I think that's what so many of us are conditioned to getting to even a lot of the conversations which are necessary, because we're not at baseline right now.

So we need to get ourselves up to like, not depletion, like regular energy being nourished in a lot of ways. But then what's really fun is like, once we get there, like, that's not the goal. Like, our goal isn't fine. Our goal isn't nourished. Our goal isn't safety. It's like to be ecstatic, to be satisfied, to be turned on. We've got to stop seeing this as the end goal that we're going for, is just baseline.

Kelle: I love that you say that so much. Yes. Yeah. That's so good. And that brings me back to the scheduling of sex when you have covered baseline and you're feeling good and you want to take that next level and be like, what else would be pleasurable for me? Actually, more connection with my partner, and sex and intimacy, and all of that is such a big part of that. And when I think about scheduling sex with my partner, first of all, he'd be like, wait, what? So confused. Like, are we at this place where we're doing this now? And probably think of it as a not-awesome thing? Yeah, a bad thing.

Nina: Interesting. Yeah.

Kelle: And so tell me more about that. Like how...

Danielle: Yes. Yeah, I absolutely will.

Kelle: It feels really vulnerable to me. Like I'm going to get shot down by my own husband. Yeah.

Nina: Yeah, yeah.

Danielle: Yeah, I get it. Well, first of all, just to put it out there, if anybody wants to go deep on this, I have like a mini course on it because all these things come up where you and your partner can watch it together. Because the first part that I focus on, and in exactly what you brought up, Kelle, here is this mindset and all of the misconceptions that were coming into this. Like, if we're scheduling, then that means that this is what we've come to, right? There's a problem. We have a hard time making time for each other. So we have to put it on the calendar. We're too busy for each other. And all of that starts from this like fix-it energy.

And really what I love to think about is instead of like looking at scheduling, is like, we have something we need to fix, you know, like that is dumpy energy. Like, if I came to my partner, I’m like, hey, we need to start scheduling sex. Of course, he's gonna feel poopy pants about it because I'm coming to him with a poopy pants about it. Like, this makes sense, right? And so it's like, oh my gosh, I can't wait for these next few years of us. We keep growing closer. I wanna create like this hot intimacy and this passion. And I know, right, for me, being able to like look forward to something helps with my dopamine.

Or I mean, you don't have to, I'm nerdy. So I say those kind of like neuroscience-y things, but you gotta get yourself on board if you're gonna present it to your partner in a way that they're not gonna also feel like this is like something they're like giving in to, or it's come to. So first of all, it's thinking about why do I wanna do it?

And my why was very clear. You know, I noticed that number one, I wanted to make sure that we were doing it because I do think that's a very important part of a partnership or a marriage. And we are in a monogamous, long-term monogamous marriage that's not open. And so like, you're the only person I'm gonna be doing this with. So I wanna make sure that we're doing it. So that became very clear to me.

But I also started noticing, and especially after kids, like the initiation or the idea, it's like, I felt immediately like on guard, or I felt pressured, or I didn't feel good in my body or my nervous system. But when I knew it was coming, that was my opportunity to get my brain and body in that mode. How do I want to feel tonight? Or how do I want to feel later this afternoon when we're going to be having a session? So you start thinking about it on purpose. And it’s such this misconception that we haven't been doing this for years. Like, obviously, we have been.

Like, when we were dating, like, of course, I was gonna shave my legs when I went on a date because I'm anticipating we're probably gonna be taking the clothes off later. So, you know, I think, number one, getting your mind on board, but then also just, like, the preparatory. Like, foreplay starts way before the bedroom. You know, the way that you talk to each other, the way that you bring it up and anticipate. And it's not that I won't have sex if it's just like initiated, but I really know that when I know it's coming, it's gonna be that much better.

So my why became very clear for why to do it. And then that can come over in the conversation. So it's like for you, get really clear on your own why, and why this would be amazing. Not just like why it would be so hard. If you start with why it would be amazing and what you're wanting to create, then those blocks like, but what if my body isn't ready? Or what if I have a headache that night? Or what if, like all those what ifs you can work around, but you've got to get really into what am I creating? Why do I want to create this and getting like on board behind and then trusting you'll figure out the blocks along the way, if that's what your goal is.

Nina: You know what's come up a little bit lately that isn't surprising, and this is work that is special to Kelle and I, because we started as health coaches, but our clients are not all going through perimenopause and menopause, but their bodies are changing. They're not in the same size, obviously, that they were when they met their partner, or in their 20s. And so they're not feeling like killer in their body. And tell us a little bit about, is that something you bump into or coach people on, or what happens there?

Danielle: Oh absolutely. And let's just say the other P word again, patriarchy. But I think again, it's like this idea that's associated with like sexiness and beauty standards has been hammered into our head from a very, like, I mean, from, for as long as that we can remember. So that's going to take some time to unwire, which is why I think it's so much more important for us instead of just working on the body image part, which I think is important, right? Whether that's representation in your scroll field, seeing other people that you believe are beautiful or sexy, and that kind of stuff. Absolutely. Work on all of that.

But aside from that, what you look like, your thought about that, that's one sense. We have so many other senses that are going to bring us into our bodies. And so me, like unlearning beauty standard and patriarchal messages, I know because of the way the brain works, that is going to take a lot of repetition and time, okay? That's not like an overnight fix. So it's like, I'm gonna work on that.

But for me, what really helped me kind of turn that was dropping in, like what feels good to me? What feels turned on? Do I feel connected? Because when you start to feel connected to your body and in collaboration with your body and really having befriended your body and understanding like all of this pleasure and things that it can bring to you, that becomes less relevant, you know? And creating safety for yourself at the beginning, if it's something you're still really self-conscious of, then what would make you feel safer? If the lights feel off, like we don't have to feel shame for that, knowing that you're working on it, right?

Like knowing I'm learning to love all parts of my body. I'm learning to be on my own side. I'm learning to feel sexy in my skin and every age that I'm at, you know. And acknowledging that we're learning that. And right now, this is what I'm going to do, right? Like right now, like I remember there was a period after breastfeeding where, I mean, now my boobs are even saggier than they were, but like I would just be so distracted because they looked like stretchy water balloons getting filled up. I was like, you know, for right now, like I know I'm gonna love you guys again. Like I will love you again so much and I'm gonna think you're beautiful, but right now I feel more comfortable with a bra on. Okay, right? You know, like, or I'm not gonna do like a position where I'm on my hands and knees and I can't stop looking at them.

So it's like, we can also acknowledge that we're in a growth period. We're in a learning period. We're learning how to embrace all of us, because I think there's so much messages out there how we should just be in this place and all bodies are beautiful and love it, but we skip over the learning part of it. We can understand, I am a work in progress. Not a work in progress changing my body, a work in progress falling in love with my body, and that is something that on the structural level we are working on those neural connections, and it doesn't happen overnight.

Kelle: Okay, you just hit on something that I recently realized, and that is my short hair. I don't necessarily feel cute with this short hair. I had cancer last year, not sure if you know that. And I'm getting used to this look, and I don't think my husband loves it, and I like it fine. I don't think I look hot or anything like that. I think I look, you know, cute enough. I think that is part of it, too. It's just like, ugh, I look in the mirror, I still don't even really recognize myself. And I'm getting a little like teary about it too, because there's a lot of energy there.

Danielle: Yeah. Well, and I think for a lot of us, you know, I've coached a lot of women who have gone through cancer, and there's so much that changes with their body, you know, and grieving the loss. You know, I think that's such an important part is like, I loved this about myself. I loved my long hair, or I loved my boobs, and now I just have scars. You know, these huge body changes, especially ones that make us feel beautiful and make us feel feminine and make us feel alive.

And it's like, oh my love, of course. Like, of course you're feeling that way, like truly. And acknowledging it and not trying to like pass it on, and I should just feel cute. It's like, of course you feel this way. Like really giving ourselves so much love for experiencing this, and feeling this way, and not loving this new body, or not loving this new look. And that's okay too, you know, because when we gaslight ourselves, like I shouldn't feel this way, that's when we reject ourselves again. That's when we abandon ourselves again and acknowledging what is coming up and holding space for it, you know, and all of those changes in like, I wanna learn how to love this. I'm not there right now. And that's okay. Cause this makes sense to me. I associated so much of that stuff with how I felt about myself. And I really loved that, and I thought it was beautiful, and I don't have that anymore.

That grieving, that acknowledgement, that space that we hold is something that we just don't really talk about. And I think that is really important part in order for us to move to a place that feels better, is not starting with gaslighting any of our experiences, our feelings, but instead like it's all welcome. It's all understandable. It makes a lot of sense. I love you through it, and I'm gonna love you through the moments, and we're gonna keep finding ways to fall more in love and see all the ways that we're beautiful in different ways now.

Nina: Yeah, if we can all just meet ourselves where we are and accept all of that, right? It doesn't have to, we don't have to be happy about it, but just accepting and compassionate. The same way I would treat my boys, the same way I would treat my kids in the same situation, but we're so not that way with ourselves, right?

Kelle: It’s so true.

Nina: Imagine if your daughter was in this situation. I know you would be all over her in a loving, amazing way.

Danielle: Yeah, and it's both. And some days I think that we are like way more in love and feeling ourselves, and some days that we aren't, right? You know, and just acknowledging that there's these on and offs, but really committing to like, I'm not gonna abandon myself in this time that my brain is offering me thoughts I don't like, or I'm feeling emotions I don't like, like how can I be there for myself and not be like, you should just love yourself more, right?

It's just like loving yourself more, thinking you're beautiful, right? Is the time that we do it. But for a lot of us that have been doing self-growth and personal growth work for a really long time, the go-to instead of just being there is usually “I should be able to love this. What's wrong with me?” Like we keep looking, we almost use the personal growth or coaching, or positive mindset against ourselves, and that becomes another avenue to reject who we are.

Nina: Please don't reject who you are.

Danielle: No.

Nina: Please. Planet Earth listeners, please don't.

Danielle: It's so tricky, it's so tricky.

Nina: But we do, especially the women we work with, especially, I've been there, you know, we bully ourselves and reject ourselves and neglect ourselves.

Danielle: And all that. And also the emotions. And I think it's this continuous process, you know, my story is, you know, finding pleasure was because my body had a lot of health issues, because I was bedridden for two years, you know. And when you don't have a body that is performing, or not even performing, just working at all, you know, it's really hard to be on your side and, and still now when stuff still comes up, and it's been coming up a lot more lately with me because of perimenopause stuff and I noticed these old messages coming and it's like I don't want to feel this way about my body. I don't want to reject myself.

So it's like I notice it and then I have this layer of like don't do this, and so it's like no, rise above even that layer and be like, oh, my love like of course you're rejecting what you're going through right now you've been here before it's really really hard, and it hurt really bad. Of course, you don't want to go into this place. This is just a habit, this is where we've been before, like we can get back there. But acknowledging the layer that I was at in that time, which was in a place of self-rejection and fear and doubt, again. And instead of just pushing past it and being like, I should just feel better, I've been here before, I should just be on my own side. Acknowledging that I wasn't yet allowed me to then be on my own side.

Nina: I can't even imagine you, you know, just treating yourself that way. You just seem so embodied and wise and connected. And it's so cool that this work is part of your process, or you're also in process, I guess. Yeah.

Danielle: Well, yeah, this is how I could talk about it, so…

Nina: Right. Yeah.

Danielle: With so much depth, is because I literally experiencing it still, and I continuously do, and I think we all do because it doesn't end. That's why I call it like the practice of pleasure. It doesn't end. Another illness is going to come up. Another wrinkle is going to show up. Another way that your body, you wanted it to do something is going to show up. Another hardship in your life, another emotion.

It is a continuous practice. We never arrive. And because of that, and bringing that self-awareness in is you realize, like, I don't get to be done with this and that's okay. Because I think that’s my other place, like, haven't I already healed this one?

Nina: Totally, shouldn’t I be done?

Danielle: Like, this is kind of bullshit. That's like, no, no, no. You're a human. You're still living your life. Like you're only going to be done when you're dead, cause there's nothing else coming up.

Nina: Yeah. Yeah. That elusive finish line does not exist. Oh, Danielle, this is so cool. If people want to find you, where can they find you? If people wanna work with you, what do you have coming up? Tell us everything, yeah.

Danielle: Yeah, so on Instagram, I'm @danielle.savory, so you can follow me there for little quick nuggets. And my website's daniellesavory.com. I do have a podcast, I'm not currently recording, but there's like over 200 episodes where I go into depth on all of the things that we've talked about here. So there's a lot of good material there. It's called It's My Pleasure. And then actually this week I have upcoming a masterclass called Untethered and Turned On, where really we go more into depth about the stuff that we've been talking about on this podcast, like how to become untethered from so many of these societal expectations, these things that have been going on, so we can actually experience more turn on and pleasure in our bodies.

Nina: Oh my gosh, who doesn't want to feel more turned on, right?

Danielle: Yeah, yeah.

Nina: Awesome. Cool. Well, thank you for being here with us today. This has just been so valuable, I think, for us personally, and for our listeners.

Danielle: Thank you for having me.

Kelle: Yeah. Thank you so much, Danielle. Hey, your Instagram too. I just wanted to say your Instagram is on fire. I just love it so much. I think I got pulled in in March when you're like dancing in some sweats after Schmecks.

Danielle: Yeah, yeah, yeah. My red sweat suit.

Kelle: Yes, your red sweat suit, it’s amazing. So go check out Daniel's Instagram to @danielle.savory.

Danielle: Yes, yes. And Savory, just how you spell it, like the spice. That's actually my birth name. So I think I was meant to be a sex coach all along.

Kelle: Yeah, you were, obviously.

Nina: This is awesome. This is awesome. Alright, cool. Thanks again, Danielle. Awesome.

Danielle: Thank you.

Kelle: Thank you so much.

Nina: Hey everyone, if you want more live access to me and Kelle, you have to join our email list.

Kelle: Yes, we’ll come to your email box every Tuesday and Thursday.

Nina: You can ask us questions, get clarity, and get coached.

Kelle: We offer monthly free email coaching when you’re on our list and you’re the first to know about trainings, events, and other free coaching opportunities.

Nina: Just go to KelleAndNina.com to sign up.

Kelle: Thank you so much for listening to today’s episode of Ambitious-Ish.

Nina: If you’re ready to align your ambitions with your heart and feel more calm, balanced, and connected, visit KelleAndNina.com for more information about how to work with us and make sure you get on our list.

Kelle: See you in the next episode!

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Kelle Cobble & Nina Lynch
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63. You're Not Losing Your Edge: How Your Nervous System Affects Your Confidence